How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
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    Post: #1
    Big Grin How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    I mentioned this in the summer (on that there Twitter) and thought it might be a good idea to open up a thread about it on here now.

    It's something that I can't entirely take credit for, as it was Juan who originally spoke about it back towards the end of last season, but it's something I think works in terms of looking at the bigger picture for finishing inside the top 4 this season. It also helps to remember it while we're all freaking out over shite results like today's.

    Basically, the average number of points needed to finish inside the top 4 over the last 10 years has been 70. Actually, that's slightly more than average, but it's a nice round number to use for the purposes of this little guide of ours.

    So, what do we need to do to get to this magic number? Win a lot of points, obviously, but breaking it down into three separate groups makes it much easier to follow, and to stomach when things start to go wrong.

    The three groups are made up like so:

    Group A - The 'Bottom Six'

    Cardiff
    Crystal Palace
    Hull
    Norwich
    Southampton
    West Brom

    Group B - The 'Middle Seven'

    Aston Villa
    Fulham
    Newcastle
    Stoke
    Sunderland
    Swansea
    West Ham

    Group C - The 'Top Six'

    Arsenal
    Chelsea
    Everton
    Man City
    Man Utd
    Tottenham

    Now, I'm not saying these groups are what everyone would universally agree on - I'm just saying that for the purposes of the guide it helps to have everyone on the same page and sticking to these groups for the entire season, regardless of what happens between now and May.

    The idea is that we should aim for:

    36 points from games against Group A (wins home and away)
    28 points from games against Group B (wins home, draws away)
    6 points minimum from games against Group C (6 draws, 2 wins, or another combination)

    This gives you a total of 70 points, and this (hopefully) puts you in the mix for the top 4 come the end of the season. It also means that games against the top teams in the league aren't as massively important as we're all lead to believe every single season. Yeah, those are the ones we all WANT to win, but in the short term and in terms of where we need to get to as quickly as possible, the other games are actually much more important.

    The idea is that we'll tot things up as we go along, and come the latter stages we should be able to see how we're shaping up, rather than just hoping to fuck and back that we beat Man Utd away to get closer to the top.

    I'll update this post as we go. Starting right now, so you'll all feel much better.

    ------------------------


    Stoke (H) - Needed 3 points - Won 3 points (1-0)
    Aston Villa (A) - Needed 1 point - Won 3 points (1-0) +2 points ahead
    Man Utd (H) - Needed 1 point - Won 3 points (1-0) + 4 points ahead
    Swansea (A) - Needed 1 point - Won 1 point (2-2)
    Southamption (H) - Needed 3 points - Won 0 points (0-1) + 1 point ahead
    Sunderland (A) - Needed 1 point - Won 3 points (1-3) + 3 points ahead
    Crystal Palace (H) - Needed 3 points - Won 3 points (3-1) + 3 points ahead
    Newcastle (A) - Needed 1 point - Won 1 point (2-2)
    West Brom (H) - Needed 3 points - Won 3 points (4-1) + 3 points ahead
    Arsenal (A) - Needed 0 points - Won 0 points (2-0)
    Fulham (H) - Needed 3 points - Won 3 points (4-0) + 3 points ahead
    Everton (A) - Needed 1 point - Won 1 point (3-3)
    Hull (A) - Needed 3 points - Won 0 points (3-1) Even with target
    Norwich (H) - Needed 3 points - Won 3 points (5-1)
    West Ham (H) - Needed 3 points - Won 3 points (4-1)
    Tottenham (A) - Needed 0 points - Won 3 points (5-0) + 3 points ahead of target
    Cardiff (H) - Needed 3 points - Won 3 points (3-1)
    Man City (A) - Needed 0 points - Won 0 points (2-1)
    Chelsea (A) - Needed 0 points - Won 0 points (2-1)
    Hull (H) - Needed 3 points - Won 3 points (2-0)
    Stoke (A) - Needed 1 point - Won 3 points (3-5) +5 points ahead of target
    Aston Villa (H) - Needed 3 points - Won 1 point (2-2) +3 points ahead of target
    Everton (H) - Needed 1 point - Won 3 points (4-0) +5 points ahead of target * amended
    West Brom (A) - Needed 3 points - Won 1 point (1-1) +3 points ahead of target
    Arsenal (H) - Needed 1 point - Won 3 points (5-1) +5 points ahead of target
    Fulham (A) - Needed 1 point - Won 3 points (3-2) +7 points ahead of target
    Swansea (H) - Needed 3 points - Won 3 points (4-3)
    Southampton (A) - Needed 3 points - Won 3 points (3-0)
    Man Utd (A) - Needed 0 points - Won 3 points (3-0) +10 points ahead of target
    Cardiff (A) - Needed 3 points - Won 3 points (6-3)
    Sunderland (H) - Needed 3 points - Won 3 points (2-1)
    Tottenham (H) - Needed 0 points - Won 3 points (4-0) +13 points ahead of target
    West Ham (A) - Needed 1 point - Won 3 points (2-1) +15 points ahead of target
    Man City (H) - Needed 0 points - Won 3 points (3-2) +18 points ahead of target
    Norwich (A) - Needed 3 points - Won 3 points (3-2)


    ------------------------

    We are currently 18 points ahead of a target of 70 points.
    September 21st, 2013 07:39 PM
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    Paddy Offline
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    Post: #2
    RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    Like the idea and I'm always thinking on these lines but you can't have Southampton in that bracket!

    Swap them with Sunderland.
    September 21st, 2013 07:46 PM
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    Post: #3
    News RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    (September 21st, 2013 07:46 PM)Paddy Wrote:Like the idea and I'm always thinking on these lines but you can't have Southampton in that bracket!

    Swap them with Sunderland.

    Swap a side that's been in the top flight for all of ONE season for one which has been there for quite a while? Nah. Just because people are expecting them to do well this season doesn't change the fact that they were only one place above the bottom six last season and won only 2 points more than the side you want to replace them with.

    Like I said, people won't agree, but it's a fine line and doesn't really matter. It's just a guide. And besides, if you think Sunderland are a worse side, therefore easier to get points from, then them being in the middle group is a bonus, surely? As we'd ultimately GAIN two points more from those fixtures than the EXPECTED six we'd get if they were in the bottom group.
    September 21st, 2013 07:51 PM
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    Post: #4
    News RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    (September 21st, 2013 07:46 PM)Paddy Wrote:Like the idea and I'm always thinking on these lines but you can't have Southampton in that bracket!

    Swap them with Sunderland.
    this

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    (This post was last modified: September 21st, 2013 09:06 PM by NiceToMichu.)
    September 21st, 2013 09:05 PM
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    Post: #5
    News RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    (September 21st, 2013 07:51 PM)Dr Manhattan Wrote:Swap a side that's been in the top flight for all of ONE season for one which has been there for quite a while? Nah. Just because people are expecting them to do well this season doesn't change the fact that they were only one place above the bottom six last season and won only 2 points more than the side you want to replace them with.

    Like I said, people won't agree, but it's a fine line and doesn't really matter. It's just a guide. And besides, if you think Sunderland are a worse side, therefore easier to get points from, then them being in the middle group is a bonus, surely? As we'd ultimately GAIN two points more from those fixtures than the EXPECTED six we'd get if they were in the bottom group.

    This.
    September 21st, 2013 09:09 PM
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    Matt8pie Offline
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    Post: #6
    RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    Fact of the matter is most people would've agreed before today's result on Southampton's placing in Doc's list and we all expected a win today. Just because we lost doesn't change that. It just means we dropped points in that group but we've thankfully gained points in other groups.

    We don't want this to become a "replace x with y" after every loss just because we all lost. Given Southampton's start to the season and end to last season, we ALL expected a win at home against them, especially because of our form.

    As I said on twitter and in the match thread, we have 10 points from 5 games. If we continue to get 10 points from every 5 games we'll end up on around or above 70 points and well in the mix for finishing in the top 4.

    Any questions, suggestions or feedback? Let me know!
    September 21st, 2013 09:13 PM
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    Post: #7
    RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    Yeah, this is something I like to do as well. Ultimately, getting the points against the teams beneath the top 6 is enough to easily finish top 4. Of course days like today will happen for every team aiming for the higher end of the table but we need to avoid it becoming a habit!

    The other thing I tend to do is match comparisons. The sheet I have goes back as far as the the 2007/08 season. After 5 games this is were we are compared to the previous few seasons (brackets are the final points tally for that year).

    2012/13: +2 (61)
    2011/12: +4 (52)
    2010/11: +1 (58)
    2009/10: -5 (63)
    2008/09: -1 (86)
    2007/08: +3 (76)

    It's incredibly early days and there is plenty of time for us to go backwards or improve. The key for me is how we are doing compared to the previous year and right now we are 2 points up on last years equivalent matches. But we have some must win games coming up to keep it that way.
    September 21st, 2013 10:34 PM
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    Post: #8
    RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    Blah blah blah blah blah. At the end of the day, you can do all these little charts, scenarios and 'what if' analysis, but the bottom line is we are short on quality and are not yet ready for the top 4. We fucked up this transfer market and our marquee signing was a defender who makes Sebastian Coates look like Paulo Maldini in his prime, and our number 9 makes me want to recall Fabio Fucking Borini from his loan.
    (This post was last modified: September 23rd, 2013 09:02 AM by PKT9.)
    September 23rd, 2013 09:01 AM
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    Post: #9
    News RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    (September 23rd, 2013 09:01 AM)PKT9 Wrote:Blah blah blah blah blah. At the end of the day, you can do all these little charts, scenarios and 'what if' analysis, but the bottom line is we are short on quality and are not yet ready for the top 4. We fucked up this transfer market and our marquee signing was a defender who makes Sebastian Coates look like Paulo Maldini in his prime, and our number 9 makes me want to recall Fabio Fucking Borini from his loan.

    *hugs*
    September 23rd, 2013 02:40 PM
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    Post: #10
    RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    With the win yesterday, we're currently THREE POINTS AHEAD of our target.
    September 30th, 2013 11:50 AM
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    Matt8pie Offline
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    Post: #11
    RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    I thought about this during the match yesterday.

    People were saying "if we played like this against one of the top teams they'd murder us". For one, we never play like we did yesterday against the top teams, we always raise our game. Secondly, if people are saying that every week and we're winning points against the lower teams, it just goes to prove Doc's theory.

    We all expect to beat the teams below the top 6 home or away and that's where the majority of the points come from.

    As I said before, we need about 10 points per 5 games. If we continue this form up until January we'd be on the 30-40 points mark which would be a massive boost for the remainder of the season. Hopefully in January we spend big to get some really top players to boost the club, the fans, the squad depth and to have a big, all out push to secure a top 4 place. If we can hold onto this form until then, things will look really positive.

    Any questions, suggestions or feedback? Let me know!
    September 30th, 2013 01:26 PM
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    Juan Loco Offline
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    Post: #12
    News RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    If I've got it right then 10 points out of every 15 works out at 76 a season, which would at worst equal the record for the highest 4th place points total (at least since the league went to 4 European Cup places). That record was us in 07-08.
    (This post was last modified: October 1st, 2013 05:03 PM by Juan Loco.)
    October 1st, 2013 05:02 PM
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    Post: #13
    RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    76 points would be an achievement for this squad. I think 70 points (or roughly 20 wins and 10 draws) would be a good season for us. 20 wins is pushing it but we should really be aiming to beat everyone at home and the bottom 10 away. Obviously we already lost to Southampton and we've got tough fixtures to come so redistribute them as you see fit but as a general rule we should be looking for those figures come May.
    October 1st, 2013 05:42 PM
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    Post: #14
    RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    Ah I remember reading this on Twitter. Makes sense that we should go for maximum points against the smaller teams while the one-off games against the big clubs don't really matter, that's how the Mancs tend to win their league titles.
    October 2nd, 2013 02:28 AM
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    Post: #15
    RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    No change this week, which is a good thing. We needed 3 points against one of the 'bottom six' and we got 3 points.

    Still currently 3 points ahead of the average target.
    October 5th, 2013 07:58 PM
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    Post: #16
    RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    Bit worried that we haven't beaten anyone above us yet.
    October 6th, 2013 01:19 PM
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    Post: #17
    RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    Updated. Still 3 points ahead of where we need to be.
    October 26th, 2013 06:03 PM
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    Post: #18
    RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    You still agree on your positioning of Sunderland & Southampton, Doc?

    Aside from that, I agree with your lists and it is good to see us on track till now to finish near the 70 points mark at the end of the season. A win against Arsenal will be one hell of a massive moral booster I reckon.

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    October 27th, 2013 08:39 PM
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    Post: #19
    News RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    (October 27th, 2013 08:39 PM)Omar Wrote:You still agree on your positioning of Sunderland & Southampton, Doc?

    It doesn't matter in the slightest.
    October 27th, 2013 09:01 PM
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    Post: #20
    News RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    This Sunderland/Southampton debate is dominating this thread.

    For those who think they should be swapped, just consider us only 1 point ahead instead of 3.

    Either way as soon as we go to St. Mary's both away games have been played and it won't matter what 'tier' they are in.

    As this season pans out it's looking more and more likely that 70 points won't be enough for top 4 though, I suppose we'll have a better estimate over the next 5 games when the top teams start facing each other.
    October 27th, 2013 09:23 PM
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    Post: #21
    News RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    (October 27th, 2013 09:23 PM)dfinneran Wrote:This Sunderland/Southampton debate is dominating this thread.

    For those who think they should be swapped, just consider us only 1 point ahead instead of 3.

    Or not, as it'll ruin the point when people have different totals.

    Quote:As this season pans out it's looking more and more likely that 70 points won't be enough for top 4 though.

    I've no idea how you've come to that conclusion 9 games in. Only once in the last 15 years has there been more than 4 sides finishing with 70+ points, and that was last season.

    At this stage last season, Chelsea were top with 22 points. The same total Arsenal have now. Below them: 21, 21, 17. This season: 20, 20, 19. So it's roughly the same. But the teams in below the top four right now have more points than those from last year, which to me says it's a stronger league this season. And a stronger league equals more sides taking points off each other, equals a slightly lower total for 4th than last season's 73.
    October 27th, 2013 10:05 PM
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    Post: #22
    News RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    (October 27th, 2013 10:05 PM)Dr Manhattan Wrote:
    Quote:As this season pans out it's looking more and more likely that 70 points won't be enough for top 4 though.

    I've no idea how you've come to that conclusion 9 games in. Only once in the last 15 years has there been more than 4 sides finishing with 70+ points, and that was last season.

    At this stage last season, Chelsea were top with 22 points. The same total Arsenal have now. Below them: 21, 21, 17. This season: 20, 20, 19. So it's roughly the same. But the teams in below the top four right now have more points than those from last year, which to me says it's a stronger league this season. And a stronger league equals more sides taking points off each other, equals a slightly lower total for 4th than last season's 73.


    The standard between the teams in the 'big 6' is a lot closer nowadays.

    Over the past 38 league games the table would look like:

    United 82pts
    Arsenal 80pts
    Spurs 74pts
    Chelsea 73pts
    Liverpool 71pts
    City 70pts

    This indicates to me that 70 may not be enough. All 6 sides look capable of finishing the season with 70+ points.

    You're right, it is too early for me to make this conclusion. I probably should have said that based on the start of the season I wouldn't be surprised at all to see another side finish with 70+ points and miss out on fourth.

    Ourselves, Arsenal and Chelsea look well equipped to better the points tallies of last season IMO. We are definitely capable of 70+ points this season.

    Spurs are such an unknown quantity at the minute with all the new signings.

    Hard to see the Manchester Clubs finish below 70 considering the points they have racked up over the past two seasons. It'd take disastrous managerial campaigns for the two new gaffers in Manchester for this to happen, although under Moyes there is a tiny chance this could happen, but I wouldn't bet on United finishing with less than 70 points.

    I'm expecting another season like last season where 3, maybe even 4 teams are battling it out for the last 1 or 2 CL spots, and I can see it going right to the wire with 70 points not being enough to guarantee CL football next season.
    October 28th, 2013 12:54 AM
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    Post: #23
    RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    It's funny, because it doesn't really look to impressive to be 'just' 3 points ahead of our target at this stage, but the truth is we're usually behind and playing catch up by now, hoping to fuck that teams above us drop points so we can make it close at the end. We shouldn't take it for granted, we're doing really fucking well.
    November 9th, 2013 08:07 PM
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    Post: #24
    RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    Rodgers has got us playing good football, recovering well from any set backs and when we're not doing well just grinding out results.
    Right now our season is very much successful, despite the early cup exit.
    November 10th, 2013 12:03 PM
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    Post: #25
    RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    Interesting that Rodgers spoke about 2 ppg and I think we are set up to get as many as possible against teams that we should be beating on paper.
    November 10th, 2013 01:53 PM
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    Matt8pie Offline
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    Post: #26
    RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    If we beat the blueshite, we'll be top. Only momentarily unless Arsenal fuck up against Southampton. Even if we lose, we'll still be in the top 4 unless someone wins by a massive margin. It's a great position to be in but if we beat Everton and have a weekend like this where the teams around us drop points, we'll be in such a good fucking place.

    I'm just praying everyone comes back from this pointless international break 100% fit.

    Any questions, suggestions or feedback? Let me know!
    November 10th, 2013 10:27 PM
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    Post: #27
    News RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    (November 10th, 2013 10:27 PM)Matt8pie Wrote:If we beat the blueshite, we'll be top. Only momentarily unless Arsenal fuck up against Southampton.

    "Catch me if you can" is the game that I'd like to be playing every weekend.
    November 11th, 2013 04:53 AM
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    Post: #28
    RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    I did the same formula for the rest of the top 7 (not Southampton) to see who's on target and who has to make some ground.

    Arsenal: Villa (-3) , WBA (-2), Sunderland (+2), Swansea (+2), Fulham (+2)
    Bonus: Liverpool (+3), Spurs (+3)
    Overall: 7 points ahead of target

    Liverpool: Villa (+2), Southampton (-3), Sunderland (+2)
    Bonus: Man Utd (+3)
    Overall: 4 points ahead of target

    Chelsea: WBA (-2), Newcastle (-1)
    Bonus: United (+1), Spurs (+1), City (+3)
    Overall: 2 points ahead of target

    Man Utd: Swansea (+2), WBA (-3), Southampton (-2), Fulham (+2), Sunderland (+2)
    Bonus: Arsenal (+3)
    Overall: 4 points ahead of target

    Everton: Norwich (-2), West Brom (-2), Cardiff (-2), West Ham (+2), Villa (+2), Palace (-2)
    Bonus: Chelsea (+3), Spurs (+1)
    Overall: Null

    Spurs: Villa (+2), West Ham (-3), Newcastle (-3)
    Bonus: Chelsea (+1), Everton (+1)
    Overall: 2 points behind the target

    City: Cardiff (-3), Villa (-2), Sunderland (-2), West Ham (+2)
    Bonus: Man Utd (+3), Everton (+3)
    Overall: 1 point ahead of target

    Overall as it stands:
    - Arsenal +7
    - Liverpool/ Man Utd +4
    - Chelsea +2
    - Everton 0
    - City -1
    - Spurs -2
    November 11th, 2013 05:23 AM
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    Post: #29
    News RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    (November 11th, 2013 05:23 AM)Sepp Wrote:I did the same formula for the rest of the top 7 (not Southampton) to see who's on target and who has to make some ground.

    Good work.

    (November 11th, 2013 05:23 AM)Sepp Wrote:Liverpool: Villa (+2), Southampton (-3), Sunderland (+2)
    Bonus: Man Utd (+3)
    Overall: 4 points ahead of target

    We aren't 4 points ahead of target, we're 3 points ahead of target.
    November 12th, 2013 01:40 AM
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    nAz Offline
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    Post: #30
    RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    We really need to try getting maximum points from all the games leading up to the period where we play Spurs, City and Chelsea away.

    Beat Everton and we go top. That would just be amazing. Reckon it will be a draw though, we will always dont do well after International breaks and our game is Saturday morning?

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    November 12th, 2013 12:55 PM
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    Post: #31
    News RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    I think we have to assume, as is the idea of this way of viewing things, that we aren't likely to pick up many points in that December run of fixtures, anything we do get can be considered a bonus. This makes it important to make sure we pick up points against the blueshite and subsequent 'winnable' teams, if we can do that then we are still on track and don't need to get too despondent if things don't go so well against Spurs, City and Chelsea. Although to be honest I'm looking at those teams form at the moment and think we will pick up points there.
    November 12th, 2013 02:26 PM
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    Post: #32
    RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    After December, this whole idea will start to make much more sense to anyone unsure of its merit.
    November 13th, 2013 12:19 AM
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    Post: #33
    News RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    (November 13th, 2013 12:19 AM)Dr Manhattan Wrote:After December, this whole idea will start to make much more sense to anyone unsure of its merit.

    After December, you'll be dropping the number 4 from the thread title.
    November 14th, 2013 12:02 AM
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    Post: #34
    News RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    (November 14th, 2013 12:02 AM)El Campeador Wrote:
    (November 13th, 2013 12:19 AM)Dr Manhattan Wrote:After December, this whole idea will start to make much more sense to anyone unsure of its merit.

    After December, you'll be dropping the number 4 from the thread title.

    Haha, but for what? Higher or lower?

    Actually, it can't be lower, can it. We're hardly gonna have a "How to reach the top 7 in 38 easy steps", which, incidentally, was the rejected name proposed for last year's season review.
    November 14th, 2013 12:11 AM
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    Post: #35
    RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    I said drop, not replace.
    November 14th, 2013 12:18 AM
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    nAz Offline
    Mr Mayhem
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    Post: #36
    News RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    (November 14th, 2013 12:18 AM)El Campeador Wrote:I said drop, not replace.

    oooooh. that just made my balls tingle.

    Twitter: @mrmayhemLFC
    November 14th, 2013 12:56 PM
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    Seeing Red Offline
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    Post: #37
    RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    May as well put down the derby result as a point we needed to get and did. We need to gain 6 points from the 'top 6' at some point anyway, so let's have one now.

    Still 3 points ahead of target, a third of the season in.
    November 23rd, 2013 05:16 PM
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    Post: #38
    RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    Thanks to that useless bunch of clueless c**nts we've just witnessed lose to an absolute bag of shit Hull side, we've now lost the advantage we've had all season.

    Nice one, dickheads.
    December 1st, 2013 05:26 PM
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    Post: #39
    RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    It's quite telling how we are currently level with our made up target for 4th place this season and currently sit 4th.
    December 5th, 2013 12:17 PM
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    Post: #40
    News RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    Quick update so people can see how we're actually performing against the three 'groups' decided on at the start.

    Group A: 9 points won from 15 expected
    Group B: 17 points won from 13 expected
    Group C: 4 points won from 2 expected

    So we're underperforming against the 'bottom six' sides so far this season, mainly due to that horror show at Hull and a home defeat to Southampton - who many wouldn't have in the lowest group anyway.

    We're overperforming in the other two groups though, which is more encouraging really. Those 6 additional points have already cancelled out the 6 lost from the lowest group, which is why we're currently matching our target overall for the season.

    I think it's worth remembering that this next period is going to be bumpy as fuck, and we'll likely slip down a few places unless we can pick up a win at one of Spurs, City, or Chelsea. Everton will likely go above us if their form continues, which will no doubt cause panic, but people have to look at the bigger picture and try to follow this basic idea we've got here. Trust me, it'll really help if you do while Man City are twatting us all over the place. Icon_wink
    December 8th, 2013 11:43 PM
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    Andy Offline
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    Post: #41
    RE: How to reach the top 4 in 38 easy steps
    Really like this idea, not good to see that were under performing against the bottom six, but sometimes they are the hardest teams to beat, because they just sit back. Would be interesting to see what the other top six teams are doing in each category.

    This table will take shape over the coming weeks when we play City, Chelsea and Spurs, lets just hope we're still at a minimum still on target.
    December 12th, 2013 11:19 AM
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